[23:06:13] [connected at Thu Oct 11 23:06:13 2018]
[23:06:24] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[23:06:30] <danvet> ah, we're good
[23:06:46] <danvet> bryce, anholt around too?
[23:07:31] <keithp> anholt may be busy with family :-)
[23:08:02] <danvet> Agenda: xdc2019, fd.o CI runners, xdc2018 expenses, fd.o merger, x.org yearly report
[23:08:07] <danvet> anything to add?
[23:08:29] <robclark> evoc project phase 1 eval's
[23:08:43] <danvet> robclark, added
[23:08:53] <robclark> thx
[23:09:05] <danvet> ok, xdc2019
[23:09:23] <danvet> we have 1 proposal from mfilion for montreal
[23:09:32] <mfilion> :D
[23:09:45] <danvet> super short summary: 5k for the venue, but collabora wants to sponsor 10k, so we're good
[23:09:55] <danvet> otherwise looked all neat to me when I read it
[23:09:57] <tlwoerner> mfilion: montreal, nice :-)
[23:09:59] <keithp> venue seems fine; location seems fine
[23:10:15] <danvet> 2nd proposal is for some vineyard that wants to sell us food&wine for 30k, I think that's out :-)
[23:10:32] <hwentlan> montreal collabora proposal looks good to me
[23:10:40] <danvet> usually they are less aggressive with their marketing ...
[23:10:47] <hwentlan> vineyard is a bit expensive for my taste, haha :)
[23:10:50] <danvet> so want to jump directly to voting, or discussing first?
[23:11:03] <tlwoerner> is a date set?
[23:11:08] <keithp> oct 2-4
[23:11:14] <robclark> had a quick look at the proposal, seemed good, plus montreal should be a relatively short journey for me :-)
[23:11:27] <keithp> and montreal has awesome food
[23:11:35] <tlwoerner> and jazz
[23:11:55] <danvet> yeah the might be somewhat meh, but not really something we can change
[23:12:03] <mfilion> and poutine :p
[23:12:14] <tlwoerner> lol
[23:12:29] <keithp> mfilion: definitely local color
[23:12:31] <mupuf> mfilion: and beaver tails ;)
[23:12:39] <danvet> oh, I tried poutine first at xdc in toronto
[23:12:40] <tlwoerner> keithp: you mean "colour"
[23:12:46] <keithp> tlwoerner: yes, yes I do :-)
[23:13:00] <mfilion> danvet: what did you think? like/dislike?
[23:13:02] <keithp> danvet: there's a place in montreal with like 50 varieties
[23:13:02] <danvet> couleur?
[23:13:21] <keithp> poutine + viande fumé
[23:13:26] <mfilion> keithp: and that place is open 24/7 :D
[23:14:09] <tlwoerner> does montreal have beaver tails? i thought that was more of an ottawa thing
[23:14:35] <mfilion> tlwoerner: yes absolutely, but not as many as in ottawa, that's for sure
[23:14:45] <danvet> so everyone in favour?
[23:14:51] <tlwoerner> hwentlan and i could car pool ;-P
[23:14:55] <keithp> mfilion: what about video recording and audio system at the venue?
[23:15:01] * keithp attempts to find some relevant questions
[23:15:06] <danvet> I think that was tbd in the proposal
[23:15:11] <keithp> ah, in the proposal already
[23:15:12] <keithp> sigh
[23:15:20] <tlwoerner> what is the venue (i haven't seen the proposal)
[23:15:23] <danvet> well, to be figured out still
[23:15:33] <tlwoerner> university?
[23:15:35] <mfilion> keithp: the venue has their own AV service that can cover that, however if not up to par, they have an external provider as well
[23:16:20] <mupuf> mfilion: yeah, it would be nice to test it
[23:16:20] <danvet> tlwoerner, concorida university conf center
[23:16:21] <mfilion> also, robert foss spoke to ccc-video recently and they were interested in doing it as well, so could also be another option
[23:16:38] <mupuf> this year's video quality was low-enough to make reading slides a tad difficult
[23:16:41] <tlwoerner> nice, we could try for more student integration again
[23:16:42] <mupuf> I think we could do better :)
[23:16:42] <mfilion> tlwoener: brand new conf center, opened may 2017
[23:17:01] <tlwoerner> mfilion: sweet!
[23:17:09] <mfilion> mupuf: already spoke to computer engineering program and they would be happy to promote the conf to their students
[23:17:14] <danvet> tlwoerner, right next to centre-ville
[23:17:17] <tlwoerner> what about live streaming?
[23:17:49] <keithp> tlwoerner: that seems to be TBD at this point
[23:17:59] <mfilion> tlwoerner: same answer as above, conf center said no problem at all, so I'll have the guys here test it first(collabora's multimedia team is based in montreal)
[23:18:02] <keithp> couple of credible options, nothing settled yet, afaict
[23:18:04] <robclark> (side note: it would be nice if video/streaming could show the slide on part of the screen (ie. straight from computer ideally).. this year we had saw more of the presenter and less of the slide they were talking about)
[23:18:22] <keithp> robclark: that takes hardware like debconf or fosdem have
[23:18:27] <robclark> right
[23:18:32] <tlwoerner> robclark: very true, or at least have the slides available somewhere
[23:18:35] <danvet> robclark, that's kind up to the VC I think
[23:18:35] <mfilion> robclark: that's what ccc-video would do if we went with them
[23:18:56] <keithp> they have the magic HDMI boxes by Tim Ansel?
[23:18:57] <mupuf> keithp: HDMI is now easy to capture, so that's an option if we can find a "all connectors to HDMI" box
[23:19:20] <keithp> mupuf: yeah, one would think that XDC attendees could comply with 'must have HDMI output'
[23:19:38] <mupuf> hehe
[23:20:10] <keithp> so, morning/afternoon breaks catered, breakfast and lunch on-your-own
[23:20:12] <tlwoerner> speaking of next year's conference, do we want to have a more formal sign-up process? it would help keep track of numbers, food preferences, it could also have people agree to some minimal legal jibber-jabber
[23:20:13] <hwentlan> some of us could probably bring a couple DP-to-HDMI adapters if needed
[23:20:31] <keithp> tlwoerner: we're looking at getting some real conf software like plumbers' uses
[23:20:45] <danvet> tlwoerner, yeah, started to chat with lpc organizers to maybe share some stuff
[23:20:59] <danvet> tlwoerner, you need to get yourself elected onto the board :-)
[23:20:59] <keithp> danvet: you use the word 'share' as if we'd manage to improve it at all...
[23:21:17] <danvet> keithp, I'm good at selling stuff :-)
[23:21:31] <mfilion> danvet: considering I work directly with one of the lpc organizers, that's good to know lol
[23:21:45] <danvet> yeah guy was on the thread too
[23:22:04] <keithp> ok, anyone have any other concerns about the proposal itself? I've run out of even vaguely plausible questions myself
[23:22:37] <mupuf> no, I think this is a fine proposal, we'll just need to keep on working on it throughout the year
[23:22:54] <keithp> mupuf: awesome. I think we need a vote today to lock down the space for next year though
[23:23:01] <mupuf> yep
[23:23:09] <mupuf> +1 for me!
[23:23:15] <mfilion> mupuf: I've been taking some notes too from the feedback from the 2018 edition too (signed up to the events mailing list), so have an idea of what to work on
[23:23:21] <tlwoerner> mfilion: silly question, you live in/around montreal?
[23:23:21] <robclark> yeah, same, +1
[23:23:27] <keithp> +1 from me
[23:23:30] <hwentlan> +1
[23:23:38] <danvet> +1
[23:23:41] <Riastradh> +1
[23:23:53] <danvet> mfilion, congrats!
[23:23:57] <mfilion> tlwoerner: sitting in our old montreal office right now
[23:24:01] <danvet> and lazy me doesn't even have to type a mail
[23:24:16] <keithp> danvet: *optimized* danvet
[23:24:26] <mfilion> danvet: thank you!! very excited to be organizing this in montreal!!
[23:24:52] <danvet> keithp, haha
[23:24:59] <danvet> so next up, fd.o CI runner requests
[23:25:10] <mfilion> danvet: quick question before you go forward
[23:25:17] <danvet> we discussed that one 4 weeks ago, but run out a bit to decided, then lacked quorum 2 weeks ago
[23:25:19] <danvet> mfilion, sure
[23:25:32] <mfilion> should I wait before posting about xdc2019?
[23:25:42] <keithp> mfilion: this IRC channel is public...
[23:25:43] <mfilion> I assume it should come from X.org first right?
[23:25:55] <danvet> mfilion, go right ahead and they the PR win before my minutes go out in 35' :-)
[23:26:00] <mfilion> haha I know, I meant, on our various channels
[23:26:03] <danvet> s/they/own/
[23:26:07] <mfilion> haha sweet, thks
[23:26:55] <danvet> back to fd.o ci runners: ask is for around 8k/year interim funding, until fd.o can secure some long-term sponsor
[23:26:58] <danvet> which is already happening
[23:27:22] <danvet> benefit: bunch of folks, especially mesa, can start reaping gitlab CI benefits right away instead of waiting
[23:27:42] <danvet> daniels, ^^ your topic
[23:28:27] <danvet> Sponsoring VMs for Mesa gitlab CI <- subject of the board@ thread
[23:29:16] <danvet> any more questions/thoughts or should we go right ahead to voting?
[23:29:31] * mupuf is all for it. Gitlab is a great way to get into CI, and there is plenty of HW-agnostic tests we can already start doing
[23:29:38] <hwentlan> don't we have gitlab already sponsoring it at the moment?
[23:29:40] <mupuf> the current runner is already quite loaded
[23:29:49] <danvet> hwentlan, gitlab instance itself, not the runners
[23:29:58] <danvet> well collabora has some overloaded box somewhere for runners
[23:30:09] <danvet> it's rather flaky and overloaded
[23:30:21] <mupuf> yeah, it is quite flaky...
[23:31:20] <daniels> mostly the network is crap
[23:32:32] <danvet> robclark, keithp, Riastradh ?
[23:32:44] <robclark> imo, if we can afford it, I think it would be a great thing to sponsor.. and if we can do something to help secure longer term sponsorship for it too (like adding logos to web page, etc), I'm all for that
[23:32:53] <daniels> sorry, on my phone so limited throughput. our core problem isn't beefy CPU but fast throughput and very low latency / high reliability to us-east-1 google
[23:33:17] <daniels> we have ~$8k on the table from other sponsors tentatively
[23:33:24] <hwentlan> are these runners running on actual GPU HW?
[23:33:34] <Riastradh> How much does this cost?
[23:33:40] <hwentlan> either way, i think it's a worthwhile cause and am all for sponsoring this
[23:33:41] <danvet> 8k/y
[23:33:43] <daniels> i will take the action to check this with them and confirm that I can put their name to it publicly
[23:33:58] <danvet> until we can secure sponsors for this
[23:34:11] <danvet> daniels, oh so you have it already?
[23:34:26] <danvet> I thought the 8k/y from x.org was just interim until that's secured from sponsors
[23:34:28] <mupuf> hwentlan: no GPUs, this is only for HW-independent testing
[23:34:36] <mupuf> like compilation, or llvmpipe
[23:34:38] <daniels> Riastradh: tbc - at current load we'll use nothing near the 8k but we're hoping to induce more load with more reliable infrastructure as more testing is key
[23:34:38] <hwentlan> mupuf: thanks
[23:35:08] <daniels> 8k is my finger in the air for an amount which would have all fdo member projects not feeling limited by infrastructure
[23:36:00] <daniels> hwentlan: will type a longer explanation later but this is cpu/disk/mem/net resources - imo hw testing is a whole nother kettle of wasps
[23:36:10] <daniels> (it's like a kettle of fish but painful)
[23:36:14] <Riastradh> bryce: What do our financials look like right now?  I don't see any updates to the ledger since May?
[23:36:40] <hwentlan> daniels: that's enough for me. makes sense to do this HW independent and makes getting cpu/disk/mem/net resources on the cloud much simpler
[23:36:41] <Riastradh> (Is bryce here today?)
[23:37:07] <mupuf> Riastradh: we can sponsor that with the leftovers from XDC
[23:37:14] <danvet> Riastradh, no
[23:37:31] <Riastradh> OK.
[23:37:32] <danvet> and yes we should have money
[23:37:33] <daniels> hwentlan: it's a building block to help us eventually get us testing on all gens of all arches - but mupuf will tell you that's a longer discussion :)
[23:38:10] <hwentlan> daniels: good plan. testing on real HW is not easy
[23:39:06] <danvet> any more questions or voting?
[23:39:17] <hwentlan> i imagine this could eventually tie into HW vendor provided testing on real HW like we discussed at XDC
[23:39:25] <hwentlan> i'm good to vote
[23:39:39] <robclark> +1 for me
[23:39:41] <mupuf> hwentlan: that's the objective
[23:39:41] <danvet> hwentlan, somewhat orthogonal, feeding in results from external CI doesn't really need this
[23:39:48] <Riastradh> No more questions here.
[23:39:53] <daniels> happy to take follow-ups by email, irc, hangout or wiki or whatever at a later stage; apols again for brief phone messages
[23:39:54] <danvet> this is about using the gitlab built-in .gitlab-ci.yaml stuff
[23:39:56] <daniels> thanks all
[23:40:06] <keithp> thanks daniels 
[23:40:20] <tlwoerner> and this doesn't have to be done in a vacuum, there's lot of interest in testing/ci systems all around the open-source ecosystem
[23:40:21] <danvet> daniels, just to clarify: still working towards getting some direct 8k/y sponsors for this?
[23:40:26] <tlwoerner> https://elinux.org/Automated_Testing_Summit
[23:40:30] <tlwoerner> https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/
[23:40:43] <hwentlan> thanks daniels for the clarifications. +1 from me
[23:40:51] * danvet +1 too fwiw
[23:40:56] <keithp> and from me as well, +1
[23:40:58] <Riastradh> +1
[23:41:59] <danvet> mk, approved
[23:42:08] <daniels> tlwoerner: agree, we don't want to do this in a vacuum or a corporate lock; everything fd.o has to be as open as possible
[23:42:17] <danvet> daniels, pls work together with bryce to figure out how to do the spi book-keeping/money-moving :-)
[23:42:23] * danvet not going to write a mail for that either
[23:42:33] <danvet> yay, "optimized" danvet indeed!
[23:42:36] <daniels> thanks again folks. I'll chase up with news and more informed follow-ups in the next few days :)
[23:42:42] <danvet> daniels, thx
[23:43:02] <danvet> next up xdc2018 expenses
[23:43:04] <daniels> danvet: yes still working to external sponsors
[23:43:19] <danvet> daniels, awesome, thx for typing that on the phone to make my minutes correct :-)
[23:43:55] <danvet> samuel doesn't yet have the full list, but another small item to add: I suggest x.org could sponsor a team dinner for all volunteers, as an appreciation for all the excellent work they've done
[23:44:12] <danvet> a coruna is really afforadable with food, so was just 240EUR
[23:44:23] <danvet> ok if they add that to the overall bill for xdc2018?
[23:44:38] <danvet> imo best invested 240€ we'd ever done
[23:44:42] <hwentlan> they definitely deserved it
[23:44:47] <mupuf> +1
[23:44:48] <hwentlan> +1
[23:44:56] <robclark> +1
[23:45:08] <keithp> +1 (always down for people getting decent food)
[23:45:27] <danvet> and approved, thx every
[23:45:35] <danvet> hwentlan, fd.o merger
[23:45:36] <tlwoerner> keithp: and drink?
[23:45:38] * danvet meanwhile typing
[23:45:52] <keithp> tlwoerner: drink is food
[23:45:58] <tlwoerner> lo
[23:46:00] <tlwoerner> l
[23:46:55] <hwentlan> the update here is that there have been some hallway chats at xdc about the membership eligibility
[23:47:26] <hwentlan> seems like people prefer not to change it
[23:47:48] <hwentlan> so i sent an updated bylaw patch to the board mailing list
[23:47:56] <hwentlan> not sure if everyone had a chance to take a look
[23:48:04] <danvet> did look, seems fine
[23:48:27] <danvet> hm
[23:48:31] <hwentlan> basically it just adds fd.o infrastructure to things x.org cares about
[23:48:45] <hwentlan> +   \item Support free and open source projects through the freedesktop.org
[23:48:45] <hwentlan> +   infrastructure. For projects outside the scope of item (\ref{1}) support
[23:48:45] <hwentlan> +   extends to project hosting only.
[23:48:45] <hwentlan> +
[23:48:53] <mupuf> yeah, that's a suddle change
[23:49:31] <danvet> I think the cover letter also nicely explains the story here, so imo this is ready to be sent out to members and mailing lists for wider discussions
[23:49:36] <hwentlan> well, infrastructure and projects hosted on fd.o that fall under the xorg purpose
[23:49:37] <Riastradh> (suddle? subtle?)
[23:50:28] <hwentlan> if there's no objections i'll send this to members@x.org next
[23:50:39] <hwentlan> not entirely sure how the voting process would look like, though
[23:50:44] <danvet> hwentlan, I'd also include the usual pile of *-dev@lists
[23:50:55] <danvet> since bunch of people tend to miss members@
[23:50:59] <mupuf> Riastradh: oops, yes, subtle
[23:51:04] <danvet> hwentlan, it's just for consideration
[23:51:08] <hwentlan> danvet: good point
[23:51:13] <danvet> for voting first the board needs to approve the final change
[23:51:21] <danvet> then we need to vote on it in the 2019 x.org elections
[23:51:29] <danvet> and get approved by 2/3rd of all members
[23:51:46] <mupuf> and I will try to get the new website by then
[23:51:54] <danvet> but we don't want to submit something that members don't like, hence why I think sending it out now would be good
[23:52:17] <danvet> mupuf, ah right, noted as agenda item for next time around
[23:52:20] <danvet> we won't have time now
[23:52:27] <mupuf> no worries
[23:53:15] <danvet> any objections to hwentlan sending out the current draft for wider discussions?
[23:53:23] <danvet> keithp, robclark ^^?
[23:53:59] <robclark> yeah, I think send it out.. probably include cover letter that this is open for feedback and comments, ie. it is basically an RFC
[23:54:15] <keithp> seems good to me
[23:54:16] <robclark> (and eventually vote in next elections, and so on)
[23:54:23] <hwentlan> sounds good. will mark it as RFC with a blurb that we're looking for feedback and comments
[23:54:28] <keithp> tnx
[23:55:05] <danvet> hwentlan, thx
[23:55:17] <robclark> sounds good then, +1
[23:55:20] <hwentlan> and i'll send it to the same lists as the 2018 election emails
[23:55:26] <danvet> last 5' topic: x.org yearly report
[23:55:34] <danvet> robclark, no need to vote just yet :-)
[23:55:44] <danvet> hwentlan, yeah sounds good
[23:55:59] <robclark> danvet, we should squeeze in evoc.. I can be quick
[23:56:14] <danvet> robclark, ok, do we have everything?
[23:56:43] <danvet> or just type the update real quick
[23:56:53] <robclark> short update is Veluri has finished phase 1 evaluation, schedule shifted around a bit to do flatpak packaging first
[23:57:03] <robclark> mentor is happy
[23:57:21] <robclark> for anyone who is still using x11 there is an adriconf flatpak on flathub..
[23:57:36] <robclark> (doesn't work yet on wayland so I haven't had a chance to try it myself)
[23:57:51] <robclark> next step is the extension(s) so it can work on wayland
[23:58:07] <robclark>  /end
[23:59:14] <robclark> (so I guess we need to vote on payment for first milestone?)
[23:59:29] <danvet> yeah
[23:59:32] <danvet> imo +1
[23:59:41] <robclark> +1
[23:59:43] <hwentlan> +1
[00:00:13] <danvet> mupuf, keithp Riastradh ?
[00:00:27] <danvet> church bell is ringing midnight already ...
[00:00:36] <keithp> sun is shining here
[00:00:41] <mupuf> +1
[00:00:58] <danvet> cool, approved, and I'm closing
[00:01:08] <danvet> thx everyone for joining and participating!
[00:01:12] <keithp> sleep well

[00:01:19] [disconnected at Fri Oct 12 00:01:19 2018]