[21:54:25] [connected at Thu Mar 28 21:54:25 2019]
[21:54:36] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[21:55:02] <danvet> mupuf, bryce_ keithp Riastradh anholt hwentlan bod meeting in 5'
[21:55:08] <danvet> (silly dst difference)
[21:55:11] <tlwoerner> o/
[21:57:04] <anholt> here
[21:57:13] <hwentlan> here
[21:58:00] <danvet> ah in 2 weeks it's again at the usual time for europe
[22:01:18] <danvet> Agenda: elections, gsoc, treasurer report, xdc sponsors, xdc19 website, weblink
[22:01:18] <danvet> sponsors
[22:01:40] <mupuf> heya
[22:01:47] <danvet> mupuf, hi
[22:01:49] <robclark> o/
[22:02:18] <danvet> bryce_, keithp around too?
[22:02:23] <danvet> anything to add to the agenda meanwhile?
[22:02:49] <tlwoerner> CfP for ELC ends April 2
[22:03:24] <danvet> luc's mails?
[22:03:42] <tlwoerner> yes
[22:03:49] <danvet> (not that there's really all that much to discuss really)
[22:04:22] <danvet> I guess we can get rolling
[22:04:26] <danvet> hwentlan, elections?
[22:05:17] <hwentlan> we went live with a wrong ballot at first, mupuf fixed that up
[22:05:47] <hwentlan> that pushed election start back a few more days but we're live now and have 27 / 70 votes so far
[22:05:51] <robclark> fwiw, I think libv's main concern in the end was seeing who got travel sponsorship.. which yeah, I guess we did gloss over that detail..
[22:06:19] <tlwoerner> (during mupuf's vacation no less!)
[22:06:29] <hwentlan> since the end of membership signup we've been seeing 7 members trying to sign-up
[22:06:58] * mupuf is wondering why we have this "prevent new signups" rule
[22:06:58] <tlwoerner> hwentlan: are these 7 renews, or new members?
[22:07:03] <hwentlan> should we officially reject their application with a "too late" reason?
[22:07:27] <mupuf> hwentlan: let's first figure out why we have this rule
[22:07:29] <tlwoerner> they're still welcome to become members, just can't vote in this election
[22:07:34] <hwentlan> i believe the cutoff date is for new and renewal
[22:08:04] <tlwoerner> hwentlan: right, but i'm just wondering if these are people who are new to x.org, or renewers who renewed too late
[22:08:11] <mupuf> not sure what is the point of being strict here. We could add a rule in the website that newcomers cannot vote on a ballot that opened before they joined
[22:08:21] <mupuf> tlwoerner: they are known to me
[22:08:22] <danvet> mupuf, it's to implement that
[22:08:36] <hwentlan> tlwoerner, i'm aware of most of them from the community, so i assume they used to be members
[22:08:47] <danvet> if people only realize that maybe they should renew when the vote is open already it gets complicated
[22:08:50] <mupuf> danvet: this should be pretty trivial to do, but I am not even sure we need this at all. What's the point?
[22:09:57] <bryce_> hi, sorry I'm late.  Family just got home, got caught up visiting.
[22:10:01] <robclark> probably too late to change rules once voting has started, but it seems like we could relax the rule (or just implement spam-bot to spam people into renewing)
[22:10:32] <danvet> bylaws says that 30 days after the renewal notice you're out
[22:10:47] <mupuf> danvet: that is a good reason then
[22:11:14] <danvet> usually if you do an in-person meeting you don't change the members list while voting either
[22:11:43] <danvet> I think a blackout around voting makes total sense
[22:11:58] <danvet> we always have a few "oops, my membership" people
[22:12:04] <danvet> sometimes even a year later :-)
[22:12:16] <hwentlan> i think letting new members signup after candidates are published gets potentially problematic
[22:12:40] <danvet> yeah also has the risk of vote brigading and stuff like that
[22:12:40] <anholt> I would love to be able to approve our continuing members during the election, though.l
[22:12:44] <danvet> way easier on the internet
[22:13:00] <anholt> approving new members does feel bad for brigading reasons
[22:13:21] <danvet> I guess we could change for next year, but I'm with robclark for this year
[22:13:25] <anholt> I think we should table a process change until post-election, though?
[22:13:35] <danvet> not that my opinnion matters given I'm not in the election committee :-)
[22:14:11] <robclark> I think since it involves bylaws, the process would be to propose a change to bylaws, and then vote on that next year, and then (depending on result) implement the change the following year
[22:14:28] <danvet> we don't need to put everything into bylaws
[22:14:35] <danvet> simple board decision/policy is good enough
[22:14:53] <danvet> from a quick look there's nothing excluding this
[22:14:59] <danvet> but it's late and past beertime here
[22:15:13] <anholt> move to table this topic until after the election
[22:15:18] <bryce_> sgtm
[22:15:19] <hwentlan> +1
[22:15:32] <robclark> anyways, spam-bot to remind people to renew before it is too late might be just as effective.. and nothing to bring to a member vote
[22:15:47] <robclark> but yeah, move to post-election
[22:15:59] <mupuf> +1
[22:17:24] <danvet> ok, noted
[22:17:45] <danvet> on spam-bot: is the vote reminder bot already in action?
[22:18:20] <hwentlan> not on my end
[22:18:29] <hwentlan> so i assume not
[22:18:36] <danvet> we'll need that one
[22:18:46] <danvet> I've typed a blog post, should go live soon
[22:18:53] <danvet> and I'll poke phoronix to do an article
[22:19:07] <danvet> mupuf, ?
[22:20:42] <danvet> hm, no more mupuf?
[22:20:52] <mupuf> sorry
[22:20:55] <tlwoerner> somebody said "drinking time"
[22:20:59] <mupuf> went to get myself a tea :D
[22:21:04] <danvet> :-)
[22:21:05] <tlwoerner> lol
[22:21:12] <mupuf> > on spam-bot: is the vote reminder bot already in action?
[22:21:14] <mupuf> Yes
[22:21:18] <danvet> awesome
[22:21:26] <danvet> btw, do we change the subject?
[22:21:38] <danvet> should make it easier to get past gmail threading and stuff like that :-)
[22:21:58] <mupuf> let me check
[22:22:07] <danvet> and I guess you folks keep tab of the turnout and crank up the PR as necessary?
[22:22:36] <danvet> we'll probably need 80% or so turnout to get 66% yes
[22:22:44] <hwentlan> i could use some help with that
[22:23:26] <danvet> I can do some blogs and tweeting, but that's not much reach
[22:23:29] <mupuf> the title will be "Please cast your vote for the '2019 election v2' vote
[22:23:40] <danvet> spamming -dev@lists.fd.o helps too
[22:24:05] <mupuf> what for? People who did not vote will get their email
[22:24:06] <danvet> mupuf, if we can get bylaw change and "fdo+xorg merger" in there somehow?
[22:24:11] <hwentlan> mupuf, how often and where does your bot spam?
[22:24:24] <danvet> mupuf, easier to ignore if you filter that somewhere
[22:24:32] <danvet> e.g. I read dri-devel more often than anything else really
[22:24:33] <mupuf> hwentlan: in the ballot admin, there is a red button
[22:24:52] <mupuf> "send reminder" or something like this
[22:25:13] <mupuf> and this sends an email to the members who have not voted yet
[22:25:14] <danvet> I just don't want to redo this because we missed the quorum by a bit
[22:25:25] <mupuf> danvet: I get it
[22:25:43] <danvet> for the spi merger there was quite a few "I had no idea we voted on this" comments at xdc afterwards
[22:25:47] <hwentlan> how often do we want to send this?
[22:25:47] <robclark> mupuf, ok, then we just need: https://tenor.com/view/homer-fat-computer-drinking-bird-gif-8025433  :-P
[22:25:50] <danvet> if you don't hammer it in, people won't get it
[22:26:07] <mupuf> I can change the name of the ballot to add fdo+xorg merger
[22:26:09] <hwentlan> i can set myself a reminder to do this once a day start mid next week, and maybe once or twice before then
[22:26:27] <danvet> mupuf, I think that'd be good
[22:27:00] <hwentlan> agreed
[22:27:39] <mupuf> danvet: done
[22:27:43] <danvet> noted both as actions
[22:27:47] <mupuf> X.Org 2019 Elections v2 and xorg+fdo merger
[22:27:52] <hwentlan> thx
[22:27:55] <danvet> I think that's all on elections?
[22:28:22] <hwentlan> yes
[22:28:26] <danvet> next board meeting will be before the elections close, so we'll have like 2 h left :-)
[22:28:29] <danvet> tlwoerner, mupuf gsoc?
[22:28:34] <tlwoerner> we're in "student application" period; ends April 9 at 1400 EDT
[22:28:56] <tlwoerner> emails have been sent to mailing lists: dri-devel, mesa-dev, piglit, wayland-devel, xorg-devel, etnaviv, freedreno, nouveau, lima
[22:29:07] <mupuf> danvet: oh, I thought this was my last meeting
[22:29:20] <tlwoerner> there was an issue raised about items on the ideas page without mentors
[22:29:33] <danvet> mupuf, one more, just one more ...
[22:29:42] <mupuf> danvet: :D
[22:29:47] <tlwoerner> i would really like to see GSoC student(s) participate and present at XDC, as such i've sent emails to the following departments
[22:29:57] <tlwoerner> at concordia: CSE (comp sci & sw eng), ECE (elec&comp eng), ENCS (eng & comp sci)
[22:30:05] <tlwoerner> at mcgill: ECE (elec&comp eng), CS (comp sci)
[22:30:14] <danvet> tlwoerner, oh reminds me, we need to get outreachy and gsoc from last year invited to xdc
[22:30:32] <tlwoerner> i emailed the xdc organizer and he says he'll try to poke people at concordia and mcgill too
[22:30:32] <danvet> with a big "we have travel grants for everyone" header :-)
[22:30:40] <danvet> awesome
[22:30:59] <tlwoerner> danvet: okay, should i take that as an action item?
[22:31:16] <danvet> if you want, would be great
[22:31:23] <tlwoerner> okay
[22:31:36] <tlwoerner> i've sent messages to the following irc channels: #etnaviv, #freedreno, #lima, #nouveau, #panfrost, #xorg-devel
[22:31:38] <danvet> we have the date fixed, plus we have the extended travel policy
[22:31:50] <danvet> so they can just sent us the travel request and done
[22:31:51] <tlwoerner> i got phoronix to do an article: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Xorg-GSoC-2019-Ideas
[22:31:56] <danvet> nice
[22:32:27] <tlwoerner> we have some (potential?) mentors: Karol (nouveau), Rob (freedreno) 
[22:32:44] <tlwoerner> as far as i know, we have one potential student: Khaled: freedreno texture tiling
[22:33:05] <tlwoerner> in his last email he suggested this might be too daunting a task for him, and that getting hardware would be too expensive
[22:33:19] <danvet> we can sponsor hw if that's the problem
[22:33:21] <tlwoerner> i'll help him get going with the code base, but the question remains about hardware
[22:33:22] <danvet> as long as it's reasonable
[22:33:41] <danvet> iirc we offered to sponsor some soc boards in the past for an outreachy intern
[22:33:41] <tlwoerner> dragonboard 410c, pretty cheap (~$100USD at ARROW)
[22:33:53] <danvet> yeah that's practically approved
[22:33:59] <danvet> usually shipping is the dang hard part
[22:34:02] <robclark> tlwoerner, Khaled mentioned that he lived in a country where it would be difficult to get db410c..  I can probably find someone to sponsor a db410c, but that doesn't help w/ import taxes or certain countries where we can't send tech stuff..
[22:34:24] <robclark> I'm not entirely sure where he lives so not sure what the restrictions are..
[22:34:30] <tlwoerner> robclark: okay, i'll ask him for more details
[22:34:36] <danvet> the one thing harder than sending money around is weapons (aka chips)
[22:34:47] <robclark> right :-/
[22:35:00] <tlwoerner> is there any chance of trying to cover import duties?
[22:35:05] <danvet> only topped by trying to get them visa afterwards for xdc
[22:35:11] <danvet> it can suck really bad :-/
[22:35:16] <danvet> we can do that
[22:35:30] <danvet> usually simplest is they order, send us the recipes, we reimburse
[22:35:30] <tlwoerner> okay, i'll take an action to get more details
[22:35:37] <tlwoerner> awesome
[22:35:39] <danvet> just needs a board vote
[22:35:42] <danvet> we have money
[22:36:28] <tlwoerner> that's it for gsoc for now
[22:36:31] <tlwoerner> (from me)
[22:36:46] <danvet> hm, we only have a really nice travel policy from bryce
[22:36:52] <danvet> nothing on hw and stuff like that for interns
[22:36:55] <danvet> maybe should document that
[22:37:10] <danvet> tlwoerner, thx a lot!
[22:37:21] <danvet> anholt, treasurer report?
[22:38:54] <anholt> after last week I managed to get 2017 to reconcile with current SPI information.  2018 is harder, because it hadn't ever been reconciled, and I didn't have the information to do anything other than "just make a copy from spi".  bryce has now sent me an archive of treasurer emails so I can try to make sense of spi's data.
[22:39:12] <anholt> also fixed up our scripts so that reconciling with spi is easier.
[22:40:54] <danvet> so for 2018 we now should have all the data?
[22:41:52] <danvet> btw do you book all the xdc18 sponsors on 2018 with accounts receivable?
[22:41:54] <danvet> or overkill
[22:42:20] <anholt> SPI gave us a report at the start of march, so that plus the treasurer emails should get us everything.
[22:43:12] <anholt> my plan was just to continue with the existing pattern in ledger, but creating an accounts receivable thing does seems like a pretty good idea going forward.
[22:44:12] <bryce_> SPI used to send out more data about transactions, but in 2018 I don't recall getting much at all.  So, unfortunately I think you'll find my email logs not fully enlightening, but hope it adds context at least.
[22:44:51] <danvet> tbh I'm not sure whether it was only paid in 2019, or whether we only got it confirmed from spi in 2019
[22:44:54] <anholt> I've been getting donation notifications, at least
[22:45:07] <danvet> I hope we don't have lots of super late stuff to really need a/r and a/c
[22:46:40] <danvet> anholt, anything from the treasurer side?
[22:47:15] <anholt> nothing left for me -- getting the stuff from bryce was what I needed and that just happened.
[22:47:28] <danvet> ok
[22:47:39] <danvet> xdc sponsors: I started annoying them before vacations
[22:47:48] <danvet> now started following up with some of them on irc
[22:47:55] <danvet> I think it's going well
[22:48:25] <danvet> still couldn't get hold of google to clarify the 5kusd vs. gold confusion which happened due to us adjusting the policy (I think, never heard)
[22:48:47] <danvet> tracking everything in bod.git/Sponsors/xdc-2019.txt
[22:49:05] <danvet> anholt, I think we can already invoice igalia?
[22:49:32] <danvet> I don't think there's an invoice from 2018 for igalia
[22:49:57] <danvet> khr and feral are still on my list to contact, if anyone has additional ideas pls ping
[22:50:00] <anholt> ok, I'll go digging through treasurer stuff to figure out how to invoice.
[22:50:08] <anholt> (and document once I find out)
[22:50:36] <danvet> thx
[22:51:56] <danvet> aside, since this relates a bit to luc's mail: one reason I remember at least why we didn't announce the updated travel policy with fanfares is that it's not (yet) clear whether the sponsoring money will be recurring or not
[22:52:37] <danvet> xdc19 website: mupuf did you volunteer for this, or should we just hope for collabora (and I'll drop it from the agenda)?
[22:53:03] <mupuf> danvet: Mark said he found an engineer to try deploying that first on their own
[22:53:05] <mupuf> and asses
[22:53:09] <mupuf> assess?
[22:53:13] <mupuf> :D
[22:53:24] <danvet> well guy lunardi uses it for lpc and set it all up
[22:53:33] <danvet> so he can just talk internally to hear that assessment :-)
[22:53:52] <mupuf> oki docki!
[22:54:02] <mupuf> well, I definitely have no energy for that right now :s
[22:54:44] <danvet> well I'm happy to drop agenda items
[22:55:31] <danvet> weblink sponsoring: I got a handful of mails - if anyone wants to volunteer to draft a policy to sell x.org weblink real estate I can keep you busy
[22:55:45] <danvet> otherwise I keep ignore those mails (and drop the agenda item)
[22:55:59] <danvet> and finally: (extended) travel policy
[22:56:08] <danvet> anything to discuss here?
[22:56:20] <danvet> imo we should announce once we have some good sponsoring again
[22:56:44] <danvet> and publizing all the beneficiaries isn't on the table for all the reasons Kayden laid out in his mail
[22:57:00] <danvet> robclark, ^^ you wanted to discuss this too?
[22:57:15] <danvet> hm, was tlwoerner 
[22:57:51] <hwentlan> i'm happy to leave this until we have a better picture of the sponsorship situation
[22:57:58] <hwentlan> looks like we're almost out of time anyways
[22:58:04] <robclark> danvet, don't have much to add.. maybe we could disclose at least the company they work for or if independent (or at least if they are on the board or work for co represented by someone on the board.. idk?)
[22:58:19] <danvet> not sure why
[22:58:28] <danvet> just changes from shaming people to shaming companies
[22:58:36] <danvet> plus there's some companies where it's against policy
[22:58:45] <danvet> if we list them, they'll start a witchhunt
[22:59:27] <robclark> yeah.. not sure the right answer.. but hte point is to provide transperancy to not give the appearance of self-dealing
[22:59:27] <tlwoerner> i just wondered if luc's email suggests we should/could (for future elections) schedule a "town hall"?
[22:59:46] <tlwoerner> for nominees
[23:00:04] <danvet> dunno
[23:00:44] <danvet> seemed a bit like picking a fight just because
[23:00:47] <bryce_> I noticed he didn't reply to my explanations, I wonder if that was enough to satisfy the Q's?
[23:00:53] * anholt doesn't particularly care to do anything else for luc's paranoia.
[23:00:53] <robclark> personally I'm ok with "we accepted the talk and xdc wouild benefit from them being there" criteria..
[23:00:57] <tlwoerner> it was an awkward thing to find in my inbox. "... do i reply? ... do i wait for others? ... what do i think of his questions? ..."
[23:01:01] <danvet> and expecting that if he'd submit a travel request, it would get rejected (and that's why we didn't announce it)
[23:01:18] <danvet> anholt, yeah concurred
[23:01:39] * anholt needs to head out
[23:01:41] <danvet> I mean we have a good reason for not announcing it yet widely - xdc18 sponsoring search very much looked like it was too easy :-)
[23:01:48] <robclark> (and ok with expanding that to "we would have accepted their talk if there were enough slots" since that implies they at least have something to contribute to hallway track)
[23:02:35] <danvet> robclark, I think if we again get lots of sponsors, we can extend a lot more
[23:02:43] <danvet> but then also with a big announcement
[23:03:13] <danvet> something like anyone with minimally a lightning talk or hallway track/2nd room topic/participation
[23:03:26] <danvet> i.e. explain why you need to be there
[23:03:44] <danvet> anyway, closing the meeting, I'll keep this on the agenda
[23:03:58] <danvet> oh, forgot one thing: I'm vacationing next meeting, someone else needs to do the typing
[23:04:01] <danvet> hwentlan, bryce_ ^^
[23:04:15] <danvet> can't yet volunteer the new electees unfortunately :-P
[23:04:55] <hwentlan> we'll battle it out at the start of next meeting
[23:05:32] <danvet> enjoy :-)

[23:05:36] [disconnected at Thu Mar 28 23:05:36 2019]